RSS Feed Favorite This Comic Poll: Click Here to Vote! It's Raining Outside is proudly hosted by Smack Jeeves Webcomic Hosting.

December 31st, 2017, 10:49 am

More details about the upcoming rewrites

It has been around a year since I last officially talked about the upcoming rewrite, so it's time to talk about it again.

(If you missed the first time I talked about it, go back here)

I did say I wasn't really going to write it until I finished the comic, but I couldn't resist, whoops. Actually, maybe this was a good idea, because I then realized that writing a story isn't quite as simple as most people think at first. I didn't even realize that writing dialogue in English is different than in Portuguese!

Anyway, I've written a first draft of the events of the first few pages, and I'll be sharing to you guys to hear your first impressions. It's here. If you love it, tell me why. If you hate it, tell me why. I really really really would like to hear your opinions and suggestions! And if you could answer most of these questions, it would be awesome:

- What's the feel of it so far? Does it feel too similar or too different to the original? Whatever is your answer, do you think that's a good thing or not?

- Can you understand what's happening? Are the descriptions too detailed or too lacking?

- Do you think adding images would help or hinder the flow of the story? If you think I should add some, how often do you think they should appear?

I know that with you all answering these questions I won't really be able to know what someone who hasn't read the comic would think of this draft, but I think either way it will help.

Finally, a more specific question I want to ask is whether or not you think that the whole "Hi I'm named this, please use these pronouns" works or not. I would type a long paragraph about why I decided to do this instead of simply having characters tell their names, or even their gender, but I won't unless someone really wants to know.

Also, I just want to tell you all that I've officially decided that I'll also, at some point in the future, rewrite this comic as an original work with no ties to the Kirby universe whatsoever. I've got some ideas of how to make this work already, and I can already tell you it will have some major changes while still keeping the same idea of the original (see some here if you're interested). How I'll publish it, and in what language, are probably my biggest questions right now, so if you have suggestions do tell. But worry not, right now my focus is still this comic, and then the first rewrite, I haven't forgotten about you all. I might work on both at the same time when I'm done with the comic, however, but let's see.

That's it for now. If you have any comments, suggestions or ideas, feel free to post them here!


Gigi19972010, February 17th, 2018, 9:10 am

avatar Okay it's time for try number 2:

Like I mentioned in an author comment some time ago, I decided to completely retry, as I figured out my first attempt was horrible, but that's not what I'm here for.

I decided to completely reimagine how the story would start, ignoring the comic's start for most part. So the result, at least for now, is Tim preparing himself to head to the meeting. "Himself", yeah, minor thing I guess, but I decided to keep it like that, at least for now, since singular they still confuses me a bit when I write it myself.

This time I also decided to focus on descriptions, and differently from what I did last time. Now you know Tim is a blackish kirby with a red cap, but I didn't say that directly, I put those descriptions related to something else. I also decided to describe the places, except Tim's house since it didn't look that important.

Finally, I tried to punctuate the dialogue right this time. I may have done it incorrectly in one part or another, but I guess this will have to mostly be practice.

Next step I guess would be write good dialogue between two characters. I stopped when Matt hit Tim because then they will then talk to each other, but I just wanted to hear opinions before, if how I'm writing now is the right path or not. I don't want to do like last time where I wrote a lot, only to then realize that it was all terrible.

Anyway as always, opinions, suggestions, criticism, all are welcome. I can only do better because there's people helping me, and I love you all because of that.

(Also I stared at this multiple times every since I started writing it so maybe it's horrible and I just can't see like last time ahhhh if that's the case I'm sorry)

JovanW, December 31st, 2017, 11:32 am

avatar I have to say though, some parts of the dialogue in the novel aren't the same as the comic, but I don't think you have to do that. In the comic form, Luke was the one who got caught by Percy, not Leo in the novel form. So far the novel is looking okay, but can you try to make it similar to the comic as possible including the dialogues? I sort of want that to happen, even though there is going to be some changes. I am not very sure if adding images is a good idea but that will be fine if you do that. If you do that, make them appear about two times per chapter. And I have a question: do you think it's a good idea to make the novel, or maybe the comic, into a real book form? If not, then that would be fine. Anyway, good luck on writing the novel and finishing the comic.

Gigi19972010, December 31st, 2017, 12:06 pm

avatar @JovanW:

But rewriting the dialogue is probably my main objective of this rewrite... Well, at least in the beginning of the comic. When I started 20 Times Kirby, I was 13 and well... My English was horrible. Not to mention I had little to no experience writing stories. So, mainly on the first half of the comic, great part of the dialogues is... Not the best. So I'd like to rewrite them.

Of course, I won't change them completely, like you probably already noticed, so you have nothing to worry about. In fact, some of the stuff the characters say I didn't change at all, because I thought it was fine.

The change of Leo and Luke was intentional. I just thought that having Leo being caught by Percy instead would be better, because of his clumsy nature. I'm pretty sure the only reason I made Luke be caught in the original was because of his position, he was more in the right, and that's something I don't have to think about in the rewrite, since I'll work with 3D spaces, not 2D.

I thought of a book format, but I'm not sure. Actually, do you mean book as in the formatting of the text, separating in chapter and stuff, or both? Because if I made them like books, like if I were to publish them, I would need to make this story on multiple books (kinda of what I plan to do with the non-Kirby rewrite).

Anyway, thanks.

Warpstar, December 31st, 2017, 12:10 pm

avatar The wording of the narration is a bit abrupt, like the first two sentences are for narration and then the dialogue starts. It seems a little rushed.

I think occasional pictures would help also.

@Gigi19972010: Yeah, since it's not a comic, but a story, instead of show and don't tell, it's more of tell some and show some.

Gigi19972010, December 31st, 2017, 12:21 pm

avatar @Warpstar:

I'll admit I hate that start. I had no idea how to actually start this at all. Granted, I don't plan to make this excerpt the start of everything.

You think I should try to narrate things more when possible, then?

Ultizeta, December 31st, 2017, 12:33 pm

avatar There are a significant amount of grammatical and writing-etiquette errors, such as a lack of double spacing (it makes things much easier to read from paragraph to paragraph)
lack of or incorrect punctuation when closing sentences or pausing between dialogue (A sentence in dialogue only concludes with a period if it is also the end of the sentence outside of dialogue. Otherwise, if there are continuing descriptions such as who is speaking or how they're saying it, then the sentence within the dialogue must end with a comma)
far too many ellipses (they just don't work outside of a dialogue context very often, yet you have at least like ten or fifteen)
and the way you have them saying their pronouns is extremely awkward, it sounds more like they're using pronoun as a verb more than anything else.

The descriptions are also, quite frankly, in need of a lot more. They're very static, often describing what would basically be visible in a panel of the comic and nothing more. For writing in stories, there needs to be more impact to these descriptions, to really sell the scenes in one's mind. Everything here is just written abruptly and suddenly.
For instance, when Dana gets left alone: "She was trembling in fear, and couldn't stop picturing thousands of horrible outcomes for her next two minutes. In a matter of seconds..."

So, you describe Dana as trembling and say she's using her imagination to freak her out. That's fair, but what would really sell this is continuing down this train of thought. What is she afraid of? What kinds of horrible outcomes is she thinking of? Take us into her mind for a moment, progressively have herself freak out further and further as her vivid fears get worse and worse until she suddenly jumps up and runs away. It may also help to use synonyms in a time like this, saying something like "she was trembling in fear, quaking in her boots from what she thought may happen," then go on to list her thoughts, etc. You don't have to do it exactly like that, but these are the kinds of detail and weight that your current descriptions really lack.

As another example, when you're introducing Larry, Leo and Luke, you describe them simply by stating their colorations and hats. You neglect to describe their stances (Are they ready to fight? Are they just standing still? Who is closest?), you don't specify how their colors work ("yellow and red kirby" describing Larry could easily be interpreted as having a red body and yellow feet, so being more specific couldn't hurt at all), and you don't describe their expressions (are they happy? excited? angry? unimpressed and cocky? confused? Yes, we can glean this from the dialogue immediately after, but then what's the point of describing them if it doesn't assist in creating the scene as much as it could?

It's fine to have simpler sentences for descriptions, but what's most important is variety. It's not good to have everything super simple and straightforward like you have, just as much as it's not good to have everything super detailed and flowery. When you're in doubt though, definitely go for a more heavily detailed route. Words are your only tool when writing a story like this, so don't be afraid to use them too much. So long as they're effectively used, there won't be any issue.

Hopefully this helps. I understand firsthand how it can be difficult to write descriptively, and going to story writing from comic writing can be tricky, but I'd have never gotten anywhere if not for help and criticism, so hopefully it'll also do the trick for you.

Gigi19972010, December 31st, 2017, 1:24 pm

avatar @Ultizeta:

Hey thanks, all of this is very helpful.

Truth to be told, I think I'll have to work a lot of find a balance between simple and detailed. Most of the time I think I went with simple because I thought going detailed would bore the reader? I mean, I'm sure that super detailed would for sure bore the reader, but you know... Do you have any tips to help me find a balance, or not really, it depends a lot? Not a super straight-forward tip, of course, I'm sure that doesn't even exist.

The pronouns part looked awkward for me too, which is why I asked. I'd really like to keep this route however, so I guess I'll have to find a more natural way to put this... If that's even possible. Well, I'll try.

Also, do you know any place with detailed explanations on punctuation for dialogue in English, or I guess you could just list more rules if there are any? I did search online a bit, but different sites contradict each other, and many even say "well this is the general rule, but many people don't follow it". As a non native, this would only confuse me even more. (I mean, in general, the rules are similar to dialogue in Portuguese, but some are completely different, and I guess I'm mixing up them)

Ultizeta, December 31st, 2017, 1:40 pm

avatar @Gigi19972010:
I would suggest skewing the balance a bit more towards more detailed. Saving simpler descriptions for more unique situations will be better than trying to make it as close to a 50/50 split between the two.

If you want them to state their pronouns more naturally, then just have them say "my pronouns are -x-", or "I use -x- pronouns".

The only other punctuation thing that I can think of is that the whole "use a comma if it's the end of a dialogue sentence but the sentence itself continues outside of the quotation" has two other parts to it that I didn't mention: that doesn't generally count unless you're ending a sentence with a period, you can use question marks and exclamation points like you would normally expect to. And also, if you're interrupting a dialogue sentence, by going like:
"This thing," he started to say, "is very big."
With something like that, you would also use a comma where the break in the dialogue is, as well as before the dialogue picks up again.

If you worry about grammatical issues, I would also suggest finding a native-English proofreader/editor to help you out.

Sei Bellissima, December 31st, 2017, 1:48 pm

avatar So I usually don't comment on things, and, being relatively new to Smackjeeves, it doesn't feel right that this is my first "official" comment... but, being somewhat of a writer myself, I noticed some glaring mistakes that need to be addressed.

Now, I know that English isn't your first language. There's always going to be mistakes, I understand. I'm in the process of learning Spanish, and I've already made quite a lot of mistakes... Anyway, let's get down to it.

So, the beginning. It's WAY too rushed. In a novel, whether it be original fiction, fanfiction or otherwise, the beginning should be full of details needed in order to introduce the readers to the world. You just have, "Our story starts in Green Greens, in a regular grassy field. There is a pink wheel running around..."

All I got here is that the story is taking place in a grassy field, with a wheel running around in it. It wasn't enough to completely catch my attention or enthrall me. We need more detail. Something such as, "Our story starts in Green Greens, a great field with grass as far as the eye can see, wildflowers sprouting up and embracing the warm rays of the sun, and butterflies with luminescent wings flitting about. Every day was typically like this, full of warmth and peace... today, however, things were about to change. A giant pink wheel suddenly sped through the grass, disturbing the stillness of the meadows."

...And then the story would progress from there. Something like that, something full of detail, something to give the reader an idea of what the setting is like, is what can capture their attention.

Next, dialogue. The good thing is, you start a new paragraph every time the speaker changes. That's something many new writers mess up on, so I congratulate you on that. The bad thing? Some lines feel empty of any emotion whatsoever. A lot of writers like to inject emotion into dialogue, to set the tone for the story. An example of this would be, "'You're too slow!' said that someone with a hint of teasing in their voice: a dark blue kirby with a jetpack, flying by the wheel."

Now, obviously, you had to change the structure of the sentence a bit, but if it's for the sake of giving the dialogue more detail and emotion, that's fine.

Next, dialogue that is immediately followed by a speaking verb, unless it ends in an ellipses (Three periods to express that a character is sad or trailing off in their words: "...") dialogue should NEVER end with a period. So:
"'No, I only know Matt.' Natty replied.
'And I only know Natty.' Matt completed."
Should be changed to:
"'No, I only know Matt,' Natty replied.
'And I only know Natty,' Matt completed."
The same change would be done for any similar cases. Now, if dialogue is interrupted by a normal statement, the first part would end with a comma, the statement would end with a comma, then the last part of dialogue would end with a period. So:

"'I was protecting this girl, duh.' he grabbed his yo-yo 'And it is my duty to help others, so yes this is my business.' he started playing with it, down and up, down and up."

Should be changed to:

"'I was protecting this girl, duh,' he grabbed his yo-yo, 'and it is my duty to help others, so yes this is my business.' He started playing with it, down and up, down and up."

Note that the second part of the dialogue starts with a lowercase-letter, while the last sentence starts with a capital letter, since it has no direct relation with the dialogue and is considered a sentence all on its own. This doesn't apply to dialogue that ends with question marks or exclamation points. So for:

"'Hey, what do you think you're doing here?' the cutter kirby grabbed his blade 'This is
none of your business!' he pointed it at the yo-yo one."

The only change would be putting a comma after "blade" and capitalizing the "he", since it is in a sentence that doesn't directly relate to the dialogue.

Finally, unless the overall tone of the story is meant to be comedic or satirical, nowhere should there be completely capitalized words or sentences. Instead, it should be italicized or bolded to show emphasis.

Sorry if I'm sounding like a grammar nazi... but, other than those mistakes you're good. So, to answer your questions:

"-What's the feel of it so far? Does it feel too similar or too different to the original? Whatever is your answer, do you think that's a good thing or not?"

I'd say it's a good mix between the two, though it leans a lot closer to the original comic. As for if it's a good thing or not, that's up to you. I'm fine with it regardless. If you eventually want to post this somewhere, you have this question to ask yourself: "Do I want the readers, who probably haven't read my comic, to read the original experience, or a completely revamped one?"

"-Can you understand what's happening? Are the descriptions too detailed or too lacking?"

Yes, I can completely grasp what's happening, even if it may be a little too rushed. Descriptions, however, are lacking, like I mentioned earlier. More detail allows the reader to imagine the world, the characters and the emotions they feel. Don't leave them with a boring, bland world with unfeeling, robotic characters.

"-Do you think adding images would help or hinder the flow of the story? If you think I should add some, how often do you think they should appear?"

That, again, is more or less up to you. Stories in novel form is more reliant upon words than pictures. Some readers do appreciate pictures to illustrate the world and its characters, but it is proper to describe them within the writing itself. You can insert images if that is your desire, but keep them scarce: as in, one every few chapters.

"Finally, a more specific question I want to ask is whether or not you think that the whole 'Hi I'm named this, please use these pronouns' works or not."

I have never seen anyone do this up until now. And, to be honest with you... it doesn't work. It ruins the flow, or the prose, of the story. I don't think it's necessary unless the character is in denial of their sex or has two different people living in their body or something. Just have the character introduce themselves, and talk about what they do and what they like. Nothing else.

Well... I think I got everything. I hope I didn't come off as rude, I'm just giving some constructive criticism and my thoughts on the matter. If you do have any other questions, feel free to shoot me a message.

Good luck!
—Sei Bellissima

TheJGamer, December 31st, 2017, 6:52 pm

avatar Okay, let's see...

First of all, there are some punctuation errors here and there; a colon where a semicolon is more appropriate, ellipses in some sentence endings, and some other things.

In the second page, I don't quite get what you said in the sentence where it says " name is Natty, she pronouns." What did you mean by the word "pronouns?"

In the third page, on the descriptions of the kirbies with hats, you should use the word "respectively" so we know that the yellow kirby has the duck hat and the red kirby has the blade. Otherwise, the reader might go, "which one has what hat?"

I also want to address what's already been said since I'm one of the later people to read this. The other people have brought up good points as well.

I hope you use my points as well as others to improve the story in the future!

EDIT: Addressing the picture question, I would like to say put a title picture at the beginning of every chapter, sort of like how Harry Potter does it. It will give the reader a sense of what the whole chapter will be about, in one small picture.

JovanW, January 1st, 2018, 4:49 pm

avatar Reply to Gigi I could say that's what I mean when you asked about the formatting of the text, separating the chapter and stuff, but I am kind of expecting it all in one book, however, I don't think this has to happen.

Gigi19972010, January 1st, 2018, 7:18 pm

avatar @Ultizeta:

I guess simpler descriptions should be saved for fast paced scenes, then? Like a battle; I can't imagine giving details about most stuff when characters are battling, it would hinder the flow.

I guess that works with the pronouns part.

Alright, thanks. That comma part is probably what's going to be confuse me the most, because when you use dashes instead of quotation marks that works completely different...

I considered a proofreader, but I wonder if it's too much work and trouble for something like this?

@Sei Bellissima:

First of all thanks a bunch.

I know that beginning was horrible, and really thanks for an example to make it more detailed, while also being not that really detailed. Like I talked to Ulti, finding a balance between simple and detailed will probably be my biggest challenge when writing, and I think only practice will help me with that.

OK, more descriptions for the dialogue itself. I explored that a bit, but I guess the more the merrier, eh?

The part about punctuation I know that I messed up a lot, whoops. Thanks for the examples again, I think they'll help me even more.

To be frank, I'm still unsure if I want to make this rewrite very close to the original or not... But I guess it should be a mix of the two. I mean, I mostly want to fix the mistakes with the original, while not changing it completely, so I guess it makes the most sense.

Yeah, I think I shouldn't rely that much on images. I think the problem right now is that I'm used to the comic format for story telling, so if I threw images often I would kind of cheat to avoid people thinking my descriptions were lacking... Because well, that's what I'm used to, showing and not telling.

About the pronouns thing... I'll address that later, for TheJGamer too. This thing is a bit more complicated.

And no worries, this didn't come off as rude at all, I know you're just trying to help me. Again, thanks.


Thanks for your suggestions!

Your idea about the pictures sounds nice, I will consider it.

@Sei Bellissima & @TheJGamer

Ok, about the pronouns thing... I'll try to keep it short and simple.

Those pronouns are what you use to refer to them. For example, you probably know I'm female, so you refer to me with she/her pronouns, for example "This is Gigi. She's from Brazil. Her comic is 20 Times Kirby." If I were male, you would say "This is Gigi. He's from Brazil. His comic is 20 Times Kirby.", using he/him pronouns.

Usually, knowing if someone is male or female is enough to know what pronouns you should use to refer to that person... But the thing is, not every single person in the world is male or female, there are non binary genders. I'm not sure if any of you have heard of anything about this subject, as it's still not frequently talked about, but the fact is that it exists... And the more people talk about this, more people hear about it, and more people find out that they are non binary.

So complicated topic, right? Right. But I think it's extremely interesting, mainly when some of my internet friends don't see themselves as male / female, they are non binary. But most of the time, they just say what pronouns they want to be refered as, no matter if their name is masculine, feminine, both, neither. With this all in mind, I thought to myself "Well, why not try to include something like that in this upcoming rewrite? I think it's an interesting concept to explore." With that, I tried the idea of like saying how you want to be refered as when you meet someone for the first time being the norm... Because when you tell your name for the first time to someone, you're basically already doing that, just not directly. Although the depending on the name, it might not work.

Ehh, I hope this is not too confusing for you all. The fact that it might be might make me scrap this idea after all... But I don't know yet. If you don't care at all about this, I'm sorry. >.<


I mean, I could in theory put it all in one book... But that would be an insanely huge book lol

Sei Bellissima, January 1st, 2018, 9:50 pm

avatar @Gigi19972010:

Hm. So, I did a Google search on non-binary genders, and, reading through the consequential Wikipedia page... well, it's a touchy topic—when it comes to me, anyway. I've always felt uncomfortable discussing topics like this...

But, I can see it working. Maybe spruce up the dialogue a bit and then it'll be good.

Oh, and if you are considering a proofreader, I'm always lurking about. It'll give me something to do if I'm bored out of my mind, at least. ;)

TheJGamer, February 18th, 2018, 5:23 pm

avatar Alright, here's my thoughts on Draft 2.

First off, the details on the magneta flowers doesn't seem all that important. The reader's gonna divert his/her attention away from the action of Tim and his thoughts to the scenery. And the scenery isn't that important to the story, so details on it should be minimized than what it is now.

On the last paragraph, I would remove the "of whoever had told him to do so" line. I don't think that's a necessary detail either.

Also, "shapeshifting" back into his Kirby form? I can't really imagine that, considering that in the games, all Kirby gets is a hat for copy abilities. I would rather go with "transform" or a word like that.

Also, the "very shy sunshine" isn't a really good descriptor. "Little" or "minimal" is something I can picture, but "shy" is a little hard to imagine when we're talking about the Sun.

Besides that, I feel as if this draft is better than the first one! I hope you take everyone's ideas and apply them for Draft #3!

Gigi19972010, February 19th, 2018, 8:14 pm

avatar @TheJGamer:

I really tried to balance out the descriptions this time. I'll wait for some more opinions on this, because I think it's fine? I don't think I put too many descriptions, at least, but if everyone thinks I did, then I'm probably wrong, lol

Alright, I guess I was just trying to be very specific there.

Huh, isn't shapeshift and transform basically the same thing?

Well, I don't know, I've always liked using prosopopoeia when describing things like that, I think it gives more personality to the writing. If someone else doesn't like it, I might change it, but... I really wouldn't want to. I actually write like that a lot.

Anyway, thanks! Hopefully I won't have to star over again.

NegitiveZero, February 21st, 2018, 11:08 am

avatar ?? Will you be deleting the old (version) comic?

Gigi19972010, February 24th, 2018, 3:54 pm

avatar @NegitiveZero:

Nope, like I've said multiple times already.

@Ultizeta @Sei Bellissima Tagging / pinging you because you two were the ones who commented the most about the first draft and I'd love to hear your thoughts on the second one. I have no idea if you already saw it or not, but whatever the case I'd really like to hear from both of you. Take your time, of course.

Post A Comment

footer1 footer1