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Reminiscence - Part 21

August 31st, 2016, 7:47 pm

Average Rating: None
petition to turn ragequit into a legit word
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Gigi19972010
Posted by Gigi19972010

plot twist

Posted at August 31st, 2016, 7:47 pm

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Posted at October 18th, 2017, 10:37 pm

Ultizeta
Posted by Ultizeta

The relatively high amount of jokes like Panel 7 lately is making it hard for me to take the pages in which they appear in seriously. It just kind of feels out of place here.

Posted at August 31st, 2016, 8:12 pm

Posted by Snivy1234 (Guest)

Wait what

So Keeby was actually going to talk to Kirby. Was Keeby then an imposter in Dual Destinies.

Posted at August 31st, 2016, 8:13 pm

Gigi19972010
Posted by Gigi19972010

@Ultizeta:

High amount? Lately? In this chapter it's only the second time I've made the characters mention the comic itself, and the last time I did that was on part 3, many pages ago. Unless that's not what you mean.

Either way, I also just quickly reviewed this chapter's pages, and unless I'm missing something, basically all of them only have "serious" moments.

If I was overdoing it, for real, sure, it would completely destroy this chapter's tone, but I'm just throwing something less serious not often just to change a bit the pace. Maybe here it feels out of place? I personally don't think so, but oh well. I could just remove it. The thing is that I started using the term "ragequit" in the comic and forgetting that's not an actual word, so I decided to make fun of myself.

Maybe I should just not try if I'm gonna fail at everything I try to do anyway.

Posted at August 31st, 2016, 8:30 pm

Warpstar
Posted by Warpstar

@Gigi19972010: I thought ragequit was a word.

About his emotion changing, I think Keeby's breakdown is somewhere along the lines of Caiya's condition.

Posted at August 31st, 2016, 8:39 pm

Ultizeta
Posted by Ultizeta

@Gigi19972010: As far as 'lately' meant, I was speaking more along the lines of the past several chapters, not just this one.

I also don't personally feel like having sillier moments in an overall serious chapter is a bad thing by any means. For this, it's less the silliness and more the fact that it's a fourth-wall-breaking joke that I feel is the issue here. The problem with that kind of thing is that typically, an acknowledgement of characters being inside of a comic tends to negate a lot of the value of the story itself. You saw this when I tried to do my own Tear in the Fabric segment and several people, yourself among them, took issue with the gaps in logic necessary to tell that story (how could an "anti-author" character properly wreak havoc and fight against the author character when if this kind of scenario actually happened the author would just remove the anti-author immediately).

When characters in a primarily story-driven comic make reference to their existence inside of a comic, it raises unfortunate questions and implications about their role within the story. Humor lightens the mood, but breaking the fourth wall breaks immersion. During an important, background-explaining chapter such as this, keeping readers invested in the story you're presenting is very important. Reminding readers that it's just a work of fiction reminds them that you're in control, that it's not a story that the characters themselves are writing, either that or raises the idea of "if they're aware that they're in a comic, why don't they take advantage of this" (or results in these fourth-wall breaks becoming instantaneously non-canon).

Hopefully that explanation suffices as to why joking around specifically with the fourth wall makes me have a hard time getting into the story you're trying to tell.

HOWEVER, being self-depreciating is never a good thing, either, Gigi. I don't think having a long-running comic with approximately 480 fans is a sign that you 'fail at everything you try to do'. People like your content for a reason. You've created a compelling narrative and characters people care about. You've been uploading for almost six years and fans from the very beginning are still around, consistently reading, and newcomers keep joining in on the experience you're providing for them. People also don't criticize things that they don't care about.

Not to mention, even if you don't succeed at something, you should never give up. Doing poorly and then never doing it again just results in that permanent idea of having done it poorly. Doing poorly but continuing to practice and get better until you do it very well results in a definitive improvement and a better understanding of things. Nobody's good at something when they start out, and even experts still have things to learn and things that they mess up from time to time.

Posted at August 31st, 2016, 8:53 pm

Nashew
Posted by Nashew

OKAY SO
Inside Out actually had some focus on Keeby being annoyed about Kirby's fame. I didn't really remember this because it's been a long time since I've read through 20TK.
Page one of Inside Out. Kirby is telling Kirsy and Keeby about Epic Yarn. Keeby reacts negatively to it.
Page two of Inside Out. Kirsy whispers something to Keeby but there's a cut before we see the rest of the conversation. Most likely this conversation was Kirsy telling Keeby to talk to Kirby, or something along those lines.
Page 12 of Inside Out. Kirsy says "Keeby, don't forget what I told you." Again, likely to involve talking to Kirby. Also in page 12, Keeby denies being jealous of Kirby.

So to sum up, the flashback in this page happened between Inside Out and Oh No. Specifically the evening following that chapter. But the next time we see Keeby, he's just kinda there in part 1 of Oh No. So whatever happened between those pages... is probably what we'll find out on the next page?

Posted at August 31st, 2016, 9:21 pm

KirbyFighterDeluxe
Posted by KirbyFighterDeluxe

guys can we please not have a frick huge text wall regarding the use of fourth wall jokes and the word ragequit

Posted at September 1st, 2016, 1:47 am

Elemental Kirby
Posted by Elemental Kirby

I was about to comment but when I went down the page there was a HUGE conversation going on, and it is nice to clear this up and all but, can we focus on the page please?
Also I think that it's okay to use the word rage quit, it's funny, also is Kawpy a fourth-wall breaking character

Posted at September 1st, 2016, 12:57 pm

Gigi19972010
Posted by Gigi19972010

@Ultizeta:

Hmm, I honestly still don't see the problems with the fourth wall jokes every once in a while? It's a pretty common thing in fictional works; yes, mostly the less serious ones, but I've also seen it used on things like Danganronpa, which is pretty story and character focused. The characters only realize they are in a comic or something for a pretty short amount of time, and it's used as a joke only. I can only see it as a problem if this awareness lasts for too long AND the comic is supposed to be serious. And that's completly different from an author character showing up and being the focus of a chapter, by the way. And notice how I've basically stopped using an author character in my comics after I realized they didn't make sense most of the time.

(If you could ask the characters "Do you know that you're in a webcomic?", they would probably all look at you with a weird face, wondering if you're insane or what.)

I mean, I've indeed used it more often in these last chapters, but they were like only once per chapter, and I haven't used them in all chapters. If they disrupt the "seriousness" of some scenes, it's not forever. It's meant to make you stop, have a small laugh, and then go back to the focus. I'm the author, yes, but sometimes one or two years after a chapter is finished I reread it, to see if that was good or bad, and sometimes I find myself doing exactly what I inteded the readers to do when reading an specific part, and I get relieved. And, well, this "let's break the fourth wall not too often and quickly to break the mood for some seconds" thing worked with me in past chapters too. I can't speak for everyone else, of course, but you might be a minority that's trying to take things too seriously and not liking when I try to put a joke or two (you probably know that I rarely try to put jokes on this comic anyway).

And I honestly don't understand things like "negate a lot of the value of the story itself" and "breaks immersion". From what I understand here, you're trying to say how things like this go to the reader "oh, by the way, remember that all this is fiction", which, huh... Is pretty obvious? When I'm playing the game, I'm always aware I'm playing a game, same with watching a movie, reading a comic, things like that. The only exception I can think of is reading a book, as you need to imagine most of the stuff, but that's it, and I'm not writing a book here. Unless, again, that's not exactly what you mean.

And the thing, at the end, is that I've rarely been getting positive remarks. I really don't mind getting criticism, I even encourage it, but lately that's all I've been getting. And I don't know if that means that everything in the comic is bad and needs to be improved or not. In fact, I can say for sure many things I did that could have been changed for better in the comic, but I can't really list many things about the comic that I know for sure that were done well. Sometimes I try to review past things I did and extract the good and bad things, to use them as future reference, but since mostly only the bad things are pointed out, I don't have much of a reference on what to repeat, I have more of a "what not to do".

It's hard when you put a lot of work on something and people only bother to point out what can be changed for better. You can't know if the other things are excelent, great or decent, or if they are bad as well since they aren't even mentioned. They want to help you and that's evident, but they aren't helping you fully.

But either way, thanks for the positive comments, I sometimes tend to forget the good side of something and only see the negatives.

@Nashew:

Yes. To be more specific, next page will cover events between Inside Out and Oh No AND after those two chapters (you'll understand when it comes). Nothing really important related to Keeby happened during Oh No, so that chapter's events won't really be mentioned.

@Elemental Kirby:

Sadly, sometimes it's hard to keep the focus of the comments on the actual page. But then, sometimes it's just because a subject related to something of the page starts instead. That's fine with me, honestly, as it's still about the comic.

Posted at September 1st, 2016, 4:32 pm

Posted by Fighter Dee

@Gigi19972010: Hey, don't worry about the quality of this comic because its really great, its just that Ulti is sometimes too critic. Never saw his Let's Plays?

Anyway, I'm here pondering and while we don't discover what is those mental breakdowns we'll have a really hard time understanding Keeby...

Posted at September 2nd, 2016, 1:03 am

Nashew
Posted by Nashew

@Fighter Dee: Just because something is good doesn't make it immune to criticism. If it weren't for people who think critically of things, we wouldn't have anything of any sort of quality because everyone would be fine with the status quo. Ulti is one of those people who sees something and thinks, "okay, but how can this be better?". Are you suggesting that's a bad thing?

Posted at September 2nd, 2016, 10:56 pm

Warpstar
Posted by Warpstar

Ok, really, this whole giant comment thing is kinda getting to be a pain. It reminds me of when Keeby had left in this comic and how everyone was like, "Keeby, you're a big baby" or whatnot. Or how everyone complained about Tear in the Fabric and the evil clone thing in Kirby Adventure. I feel like you guys are putting unneccesary fluff to your comments instead of getting to the point.

If this continues, what if we start having problems with each other instead of the comic?

Posted at September 3rd, 2016, 11:05 am

Posted by Snivy1234 (Guest)

@Warpstar: I aree with this

Posted at September 4th, 2016, 9:02 pm

Posted by OrangeBundit

@Snivy1234: Ditto

Posted at October 2nd, 2016, 4:57 pm

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