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Dual Destinies - Part 50!

December 14th, 2015, 4:53 pm

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Keeby... Can you not...
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Gigi19972010
Posted by Gigi19972010

End of Dual Destinies... 750 pages... 5 years!

Whew, would you look at that... This chapter is over, and we hit the 5 year mark! I don't even know what to say exactly... Five years is a lot of time, and I've been working on this comic for around that long... Well, thanks to you all for reading the comic so far, no matter when you started that!
So, I have stuff to talk about... This page, this chapter, what's next in the comic... So, let's go! First about this page.
Well, I started this page... Yesterday. Yes. Things got on the way, I was working on the previous page... In fact, I just finished this one page some minutes ago! And it's raining! Power ended and I was like "nooooo" but it came back right after, thank goodness. But I lost one paragraph of this comment and couldn't rewrite it that well... Sigh.
Anyway, with this page I tried something new: I scanned the sketches instead of the lineart, and tried to work with them linelessly right from the start. It was fun. Not sure if I'll continue doing that with my drawings (not that I draw that often), but it was sure nice to try something different. Maybe I can draw with a mouse, after all!
Anyway, this is a basic anniversary page, with drawings and stuff. Keeby explains better why he's angry, Kirby and Kirsy react to that and Xiaolin... Is Xiaolin. And hey, a painting. I wonder why Xiaolin wanted that. Oh, and no Gigi this time... Not that you care, right?
Well, I don't have much to say about this page... I hope the drawings aren't that bad, and that's all. Next...
So, about this chapter... Well, I first had the idea of making a chapter similar to an Ace Attorney case around the time when I started playing the series, which was somewhere in 2013. I really liked the concept of them, so trying to do something similar in my comic sounded like a good idea. However, that didn't look easy to do at all. So I just wrote down the first ideas I had: Kirby would be the "defense attorney", Keeby would be the "prosecutor", Kirsy would be the "judge" and Adeleine would be the "defendant". I didn't know who would be the victim, who would be the killer nor anything like that.
It stayed like that for a long time. Sometimes I'd have one idea or another for what could happen, but most wouldn't exactly connect with the others. After finally having some sort of base to start working with, I realized that I was having trouble picking the right characters for each role that was left. Like... With so many characters that I have, many could take different roles... And I got a bit lost. That's when I decided that maybe working with cameos here could work. I'd have a limited number of characters to split up between the roles and I wouldn't have too much trouble. My only concern was that maybe I'd have no characters that would be able to fit a particular role, but if that were to happen I would just take a pre-existing character (like what happened with Dedoo).
Soon I'll talk more about the cameos, but after I got them I was able to complete the chapter idea for real, with Slik being the "detective", Lonn and Azura being witnesses and Sera being the culprit. Dedoo ended up being the other witness because his role wouldn't really fit for one of the cameos, and Leona was the victim because I ended up deciding that I wanted one of my characters to be killed, not someone else's. With everyone's role decided, it was a lot easier to figure out the details and some key points of the chapter.
It's quite complicated to explain how I got those ideas and connected them to make this chapter, but for most part I was trying to imagine what you, the readers, would be thinking when something would happen. Then, based on that, I'd make something happen or not happen. Yeah, at the end I didn't guess some reactions right (like when I made Sera act a bit suspicious to see if you would think she would be the culprit, but then think that that would be too obvious and change your mind, but you started to think she was the culprit further in the chapter), but it looks like I still got you surprised when Adeleine confessed and when Sera said Leona didn't die.
Well, looking back now, I think I made it all make sense... At least for most part. Since the Kirby universe doesn't have a "court" system, it was indeed a challenge to make this all happen with some logic behind it. Murders aren't investigated here and never were, so putting Slik not only as the detective, but also as the one interested in the investigation helped me a bit with things. But, at the same time, this happened in an open place, if Sera wished she could've just escaped. But hey, people aren't arrested here either, so I dunno... I tried my hardest, I really did.
Sure, at the end some things still aren't explained, but they are also related to future happenings. Sera and Slik, for instance, will probably be used in future chapters, though they won't be extremely important characters. As for Lonn and Azura, maybe they will appear too, but I'm not so sure right now. Yes, I know you all put effort into your characters and wanted them to show more, so I'll try to do that in future chapters.
And yeah, the cameos. Slik was from Ultimate Yoshi, Lonn from SkyyTheKirby44, Azura from Hanna B and Sera from TaterOfTheTot. Also, I'm sorry for the other two who sent me characters, Fattino and Deebert, I couldn't really fit yours anywhere. I might put them in future chapters if you really want (please let me know, I don't bite). Also, I just didn't reveal what character was from who right from the start because then you'd realize who would be the "important" ones (the one from the winners) and would already know they would have a bigger role (that's why Slik was the "detective" and Sera the culprit, and not the others). But yeah, that's about it.
Now for some specific things about this chapter: why suddenly Leona, Sera's actions and Keeby.
Leona ended up being the victim because I remembered she needed to appear again... You maybe have noticed, Leona has something to do with Sera. Well, obviously, since Sera is a cameo, their relationship was created by me when I got the cameo, but still... They are important, somehow. Not extremely important, but they are important. Leona not being able to "die forever" was also an interesting aspect that was extremely useful in this chapter: the victim died, but came back to life, well, somehow, and gave testimony! You don't see that every day. But yeah, Leona being the victim was because I needed to remember you that she existed, and tell you some stuff about her. Sure, there's more to come, but you know enough for now...
Sera's actions. Well, I've been noticing in the comments people complaining about what Sera did, that she changed her opinion out of nowhere and all that and that no one noticed or complained in the comic. Well, I reread all pages where Sera said something, and first she said she saw Adeleine murdering the victim (which, mind you, could have been true), then she questioned if it mattered to know if what Kirby said is true and why they were doing all this. Yeah, ok, this obviously sounds a bit suspicious, but for you, who are watching from far away and not in the middle of this mess. First of all, like I said earlier the Kirby universe doesn't have a justice / court system or anything like that, so questioning why they were investigating actually made sense for them. Sure, earlier she cooperated and went with it, but it had passed some time since last she spoke, do you really think they would remember how she cooperated? In fact, she explains right after why she thinks this is all pointless: Leona didn't even actually die. Yeah, she said earlier that Leona had died, right? In fact, Kirby points this out! But since Sera's concept of death is different from what we know, she said that Leona "died only for a while". Well, she did die, but not forever. She didn't actually die. Yes, it's matter of interpretation here. Sera didn't change what she said earlier, after all Leona did die. But she didn't "actually" die, she died only for a while. Maybe I should've worded this before, indeed, but Sera didn't change her opinion, and she even explained that in comic.
Also, not sure if this was clear, but Sera was doing what Xiaolin told her to do, but she wasn't exactly caring about it. Notice how, when she accidentally "confessed", she was like "ok screw it, I'm gonna tell the rest instead of keeping lying". And why did she decide to do what Xiaolin told her to do? Because yes. Yes, that was her reason. Well, don't question me, question her!
And lastly... Keeby. Ok, quick review, Keeby is ALWAYS left behind from Kirby's adventures, or he doesn't get credit for it. Whenever he's doing something with Kirby and they have to pick a side, Kirby picks the right one. I made this very clear during the whole comic, and I saw many getting this simple aspect. So imagine if suddenly he finds himself defending something he is 99% sure that it is right, for once, but suddenly Kirby says something random (his theory) and lots of things start to happen out of nowhere, and he's proven wrong... Well, he snaps. He had kept all this rage for a long time now, and he unleashed it.
To make things clearer, Keeby wasn't trying to prove Adeleine guilty, he was trying to prove himself right. Since when he found himself in this "courtroom", he wanted to pick a position and picked the one that was left: the one who was accusing Adeleine. After some time passed, he indeed realized he was probably right, so he got confident. However, at some point there was a "turnabout" and Adeleine started to look not guilty... Well, in the beginning, he didn't care much, he thought at the end she would look guilty again. But this didn't happen, and when he realized he was probably wrong, he freaked out a bit. That's when he started to sound a bit less reasonable. Then, when Adeleine was found not guilty, he unleashed his rage... Anyway, was he right to do that? Probably not. But hey, no one does things right all the time. And sometimes people are good at hiding their feelings and when they show them, you get confused. You've probably seen this situation before, haven't you? Well, this happened here. Keeby was hiding all the time that he was angry at Kirby, you know why? They are best friends. But, instead of trying to take this calmly, he kept this to himself so much he couldn't take it anymore, and got angry like this. Maybe he should've talked to Kirby before. Well, that's impossible right now.
Also, notice the other meaning of the chapter title's that isn't a reference to the Ace Attorney game... Kirby and Keeby have two different destinies. One is supposed to be the hero, one is supposed to try to be a hero... Right? Who knows.
Well, this is basically it about this chapter. Feel free to ask more things about it if you wish, I probably forgot about something or didn't explain something well enough. Just as a quick thing to end this, I'm still not sure if this chapter was bad or good. It felt like it was both at the same time. So, if any of you have anything to comment about this chapter, feel free to... As long as you explain why you think that, not "hey I hated this chapter", this doesn't help me at all. Believe me, no matter how sometimes I maybe sound like I'm not caring about your opinion about something about a chapter, I am. And I really, really do care about what you have to say, so please share away. Sure, sometimes I don't agree, but that's bound to happen.
Anyway, what's next? Firstly, less updates per year! ...Yeah. Notice how I've always posted 150 pages per year, for five years. Well, I'm going to have to break that, and start posting 100 pages per year from now on. Why? College. Life. And the fact that I'd rather have more time to work on the rest of the scripts now. Doing 50 pages of this chapter for 4 months made my head go crazy, so much stuff happening, so many things to happening... And I'm updating three times a week! I went a bit crazy. And college. And IRL things. And Toontown (shhhhh). I kinda needed more time to think of things sometimes, but I just didn't have that time. So, yeah, I'll start to update less often, like twice a week. Hope you understand!
Second... What's the next chapter? Well... Let's say plot development, character development and madness. You'll see it. I promised what's going to happen in this chapter to one of my best friends, and now I'm making it happen. Watch and see~
Third... How many times have I said that I'm glad you all read this comic? Well, I'm going to say it again: thanks for reading! Hope you all keep reading the comic! Here's for another year of 20 Times Kirby! Hopefully, I'll stop thinking I'm doing things wrong! (Next chapter starts Thursday or Monday... I'll see.)

Posted at December 14th, 2015, 8:27 pm

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Posted at August 21st, 2017, 9:03 am

DarkNut255
Posted by DarkNut255

Keeby, you little rascal!

...Honestly, if Keeby felt at all guilty later, Xaolin's next plan would probably be ruined immediately. "OH WELL WHO NEEDS A BACKUP PLAN ANYWAY" - probably something Xaolin wouldn't say because he might actually have a backup plan, but I thought it was funny SO I'M WRITING IT GERD DERNIT.

Anyways, congrats! You have had FAR more patience that I could have ever dreamed of when it comes to comic making, and I say here's to 1000 when it comes!

Posted at December 14th, 2015, 8:44 pm

Luigi_96
Posted by Luigi_96

Congrats on the milestones!

I don't have much to say regarding this chapter. It was... sure a thing.

Posted at December 14th, 2015, 8:44 pm

SuperScratchkat
Posted by SuperScratchkat

huh

neat

Posted at December 14th, 2015, 8:46 pm

sconic123
Posted by sconic123

Keeby?
more like...
Salty...

heh...

Oh, and congrats on the milestone.

Posted at December 14th, 2015, 8:59 pm

Warpstar
Posted by Warpstar

Keeby's gone now, NOOOOOOOOOO! I actually can see where he's coming from and I kinda wished I did what he did in my situation, but in a reasonable fashion. I'm always helping people and have nothing to show for it. Not a thanks even. And even some of those people I help are jerks to me. I help because I care, everyone just likes to take advantage of that. It's really hard to say no to someone when you are me.


That's what I would've said back then.

Posted at December 14th, 2015, 9:26 pm

Posted by DeeBert (Guest)

Ooh, it looks like Xialion is doing something! I wonder what will he use that painting for...

Posted at December 14th, 2015, 9:42 pm

Ultizeta
Posted by Ultizeta

It's a comment from Ulti, better prepare yourself for the long haul. Sorry in advance...

...Alright. I did say I'd reserve judgment until now, so here's my stance on this chapter:

1. The trial part of this chapter was, to be quite frank, rather boring. The mystery was slow, some parts felt like they came out of nowhere and were illogical (i.e. Leona couldn't die and came back to life, yes that can be argued as a twist but as far as how it was implemented there was absolutely no build-up and no explanation within the chapter), and visually, it was extremely uninteresting. The entire chapter took place in the same location, nobody moved ever, and it was just a bunch of close-ups on characters arguing. It simply wasn't that entertaining or interesting to me in that respect.

2. The actual murder: I've got not much to say about it. I had no real issues with Sera, yeah she felt a little obviously bad but on the other hand, the point of a trial is to treat everyone equally, so it made sense to give her the benefit of the doubt (or I guess, as far as the characters go, not notice anything was off, which is also fair considering the wacky characters they meet in this world). Involving Xiaolin was a fun callback, and it creates some intrigue in future events, so that was definitely interesting. The set-up here was fairly good.

3. The characterization... Well, for the most part, it was okay, though none of the supporting cast other than Sera felt like there was any unique personality there at all. They felt there to fulfill a role, so while they weren't bad, I can't really say there was anything definitive about their character, even for my own (I honestly can't remember what traits I gave Slik, and his use here didn't really help me remember). And then... there's Keeby.

4. I've reread the entirety of 20 Times Kirby. Well, technically, I just reread the pages that feature Keeby. I wanted to make sure I had the best grasp of the character I could before continuing here. In We Are Not Alone, it's Keeby's plan that saves the day twice. While Larry does do a bit more of the action, it still wouldn't have worked without Keeby. He played a pivotal role in saving everybody, Kirby included, and was the hero that day. In Such a New Life, Keeby is worried that his birthday gift for Kirby was awful and it would ruin his friendship compared to Kirsy's gift. Kirby appreciated the simplicity greatly and Keeby's fears were assuaged. In Xiaolin Showdown, Keeby does fail against Xiaolin, but then again, so does literally everybody else, so there's no way he could feel like the second banana to anybody here except Panee when they're all on equal failed grounds. In Old Friend or New Foe, Keeby is a bit miffed that Kirby didn't tell Keeby about the old gang coming back, which is understandable at first, but Kirby had no way of knowing that Kiggy would lead the group astray from that plan, and it became clear in the end that it was Kiggy's fault and not Kirby's, meaning that if Keeby harbored any resentment here, it'd be fairly irrational. In Just Like a Butterfly, Primary-Keeby didn't get left out of the presumed 'adventure' of being one of the first to see Daisy's machine, and it was only due to his placement amongst the characters and not anything else that caused him to miss the alternate-timeline adventure. In Inside Out, we see the first instance of Keeby feeling truly left out, though he's not the only one here, as Kirsy, his other extremely close friend, also got left out of the Epic Yarn quest. It seems as though this is the first time Keeby is shown as jealous of Kirby, and nothing that gets said at first cheers him up any. While in Kirby's mind, Keeby is the one who is smart enough to work out Xiaolin's plan, but physically is incapable of doing anything. Keedy found himself in the right place at the right time, and Keeby is understandably upset that his possible time to shine was shown up by someone else. Kirsy, however, gets him to see that there's two sides to the issue, but in order for anything to work out, Keeby needs to talk to Kirby about his feelings, and Keeby agrees with that statement and promises to try. In Oh No, Keeby was the only one to think that Lindroganti's letter was suspicious, and he turned out to be right in this instance. Keeby is also not upset at all that he once again didn't get to play the hero, as that role was played by Meta Knight and the other three Kirbies instead. And then, that leads into Dual Destinies.

Now, I realize you probably already know all that. It's more of a recap for myself and also anyone else reading the comic, heh.

Anyyyywaaaays, now that that's over, that's basically been Keeby throughout the entirety of the comic in a quick nutshell, from what I can tell. So, how does that fare with his personality in Dual Destinies?

Admittedly, I had forgotten about Inside Out at this point. Rereading that chapter definitely makes Dual Destinies feel much less out-of-the-blue that it did initially. However... I still have many qualms with this, though some for different reasons.

Keeby never once talked with Kirby about his feelings like he promised to. Yes, he's a passive character, but there never was even any semblance of an attempt shown. Instead, doing it this way just makes it seem as though he ignored his other best friend and continued to feel like Kirby was intentionally treating him badly, which was definitely not the case and was something that Kirsy pointed out to him in Inside Out. He never made the attempt, and while that does explain his bottled up rage, it's poor writing for him to have not even so much as *tried* to keep his promise.

Keeby's actions in the chapter feel rather forced, as well. The idea that he feels left out again makes more sense, but again, Kirby isn't doing these things intentionally, and Keeby, while a definite emotional actor here, is still acting *far* too single-mindedly compared to the character that had enough reason to easily figure out Xiaolin's plot in Inside Out and almost immediately plan how to beat Panee in We Are Not Alone. He's *not* a stupid character, and this feels like a case of ignoring his logical reasoning side in the writing in favor of having him act purely emotionally, which I feel is poor writing. Page 49's "ragequit" is one thing, everybody can have emotional explosions like that, but I refuse to believe that someone as logical as Keeby (which he also continued to exhibit within this chapter by showing far more reasoning than Kirby in his prosecution and keeping a decent level-head) wouldn't at *some* point realize his pettiness and envy getting carried away in his attempts to put Adeleine, one of Kirby's other close friends, away. No matter how this ended, their friendship would've been estranged. Either Keeby succeeds in arresting one of Kirby's close friends and Kirby gets upset at him, or Kirby manages to win (which he did by no actual skill or strategy on his part, it was simple dumb luck of the witness randomly not being able to die permanently) and Keeby is again of no use to the situation. Anybody with any sense of logic would've been able to see that, but the fact that Keeby was written as "trying to prove himself right" without realizing absolutely anything else about the scenario just feels like poor writing.

Furthermore, I don't think there was enough build-up for this falling out between the two. Inside Out was Keeby's last major appearance, and then suddenly in his next major appearance it escalates even further? The emotions he felt in Inside Out did feel a *bit* odd but they were introduced in a way that made them feel reasonable and didn't feel out-of-character, which was good. Here, though, they just come back again, but with so many segments in-between where Keeby doesn't do much at all, it didn't leave enough time for this character depth to actually sink in or build up well. I would've suggested including at least one other segment with Keeby as a major actor that allowed him to continue harboring feelings of envy, and perhaps include that aforementioned potential scene of him trying to fulfill his promise to Kirsy but failing due to his passiveness.

Finally, the other part of this for me that makes it an issue is that a lot of the events that really get under Keeby's grill are completely off-screen. Within the comic itself, the only time Keeby ever really is shown getting upstaged is in Inside Out by Keedy, not Kirby. The other instances of him getting upstaged that get mentioned are Epic Yarn and Return To Dream Land, both of which weren't featured within the comic's story itself. On the other hand, Keeby is shown doing several other heroic things and either being a major player who saves the day (Heck, Larry technically does more but Keeby is the one to get the main credit in WANA), or did just as much as Kirby was able to and neither came out on top. In order for feelings like this to really feel like they have worth behind them and stand out to readers, it would've been better to have included a lot more instances of on-screen times where he got shown up or lost credit in order for this to really feel believable.


As far as Keeby's reaction goes, it's definitely rather childish and doesn't befit someone as logical as him. Completely cutting off contact with Kirby simply because Keeby never even tried to talk with him about what Kirby was unintentionally making him feel? That's like the purest definition of immaturity. However, since he's very clearly acting purely on his pent-up rage and emotion here, that's not an issue. What I *will* find an issue is if he doesn't stop and think about things and at the very least have second guesses about this decision in future appearances. From what I'd guess, I'd imagine Xiaolin is going to try and manipulate him to suit his goals, which would be able to explain why Keeby wouldn't end up going back if that is the case, but I don't feel like someone with Keeby's sense of reasoning would stick with this kind of decision after calming down without being considered out-of-character.



Anywaaaays, that was a really long critique of this chapter. I thought I tried to stop myself from doing this anymore but I guess I can't help myself sometimes. Hopefully what I've said here has at least made you understand my issues with the chapter even if you disagree.

Posted at December 14th, 2015, 9:49 pm

Blizzard
Posted by Blizzard

I overall enjoyed this chapter! Few minor flaws like Ulti pointed out.

This drawn style is also wonderful!

(Reminds me....when is fanart contest being revealed....)

Posted at December 14th, 2015, 10:28 pm

ForestFire
Posted by ForestFire

Keeby is either going to be Luigi or Shadow the Hedgehog. It is up to him which path he takes.

Posted at December 14th, 2015, 10:39 pm

Kebi_in_your_pants
Posted by Kebi_in_your_pants

As of right now Keeby reminds me a lot of myself when I was younger, which makes me sympathize with him a bit. But he still feels a bit out of character and the situation he was put in to show his frustration really puts him in the wrong.

But what's done is done, we can only work off of what we have now.

Posted at December 15th, 2015, 12:42 am

Alienoid
Posted by Alienoid

Minor note, panel six's 'Waddle Dee that I doesn't even know how to use a spear' isn't entirely correct (get rid of the I) and panel ten's 'Why did he never told me about that' should either be 'Why did he never tell me about that' or 'Why has he never told me about that', if I'm not mistaken.

I'm also with Blizzard in wondering when the results for the art contest will be in, seeing as how the contest ended in July.

Posted at December 15th, 2015, 3:05 am

Gigi19972010
Posted by Gigi19972010

@Ultizeta:

1- And what else could've I have done in a 50 page chapter? They wouldn't have enough time to investigate other places (I thought of them going to the cliff where Adeleine met Leona, but I just couldn't fit that) so it all happened in the "courtroom". I kept the games in mind, and the games do the same thing, they happen in the same place and the characters don't move. Sure, they are games, but I still don't know what else I could've done.

2. Thanks, I honestly thought maybe putting Xiaolin here would feel a bit weird, and I'm glad it didn't.

3. It was hard to characterize all the cameos in this chapter. Sera ended up being the focus because of all that happened so she was better characterized than the others. That's why I'm trying to bring them back in later chapters somehow, here, like you said, they were just fulfilling roles, and not more.

4. Well, you forgot Keeby's appearence in Midnight Madness, which was rather important in the terms of what you're saying here. There, I showed Keeby's reaction to Kirby in the True Arena. He wanted to help Kirby, but couldn't, and even Kirsy got on the way to stop him from trying.
I'll get back to this again, but let's please remember that there isn't a court system in the Kirby universe and that, here, trying to prove someone guilty for murder isn't trying to get them to receive a death penality, like it even is in the Ace Attorney series. Keeby was hoping that Adeleine was the culprit (even if it wasn't intentionally Adeleine's fault), he wasn't trying to make Adeleine look like the culprit, if that makes sense. Heck, what's going to happen to the culprit (Sera, right now)? No one knows. What did Slik want to do with all this? To find the culprit. But why? And do what with the culprit? With all the "murders" that happen around Dream Land (including the ones that kirbies themselves do all the time), who would think that being proven guilty of murder would be an extremely bad thing? You know, the surprise here was that Adeleine was the one being framed, not that a murder happened. We are in a world where eating others alive is something normal.
Well, going back... I'm aware that there have been times where Keeby was an "hero", but Keeby is mostly upset because when something major happens, he isn't there to help Kirby. "Major" means the facts from games, because those are always Kirby saving the world from some sort of evil force that could potentially destroy the planet. Keeby never helped Kirby in those, and he wanted to. His breaking point here wasn't exactly the facts from this chapter (even though he made it sound like it was), it was the facts from KRtDL (ok, Kirby saves the world alone all the time... you would think that when he would do it with others, he would call his best friend, right? no). Yeah, they came out of nowhere here at this page, I'm aware, but the thing is that Keeby knew this had happened. He was already sorta angry at this and being left behind yet again in the beginning of the chapter made him more angry. While Keeby was indeed acting a bit reasonable during this chapter, he wasn't for most part because he was very angry inside. I thought that when I cleared this up in this page, it would make more sense, but I guess it didn't. I mean, Kirby is indeed a reasonable character but he's not the most reasonable character ever, there's bound to be one time or another, though very rare, where he suddenly can't use his reason to control his feelings. In fact, Keeby isn't going to leave them for lots of time, like you pointed out. He will soon realize he was a complete child doing this all and will come back, and maybe even realize that he should've talked to Kirby about this before (he didn't try before because... he didn't try. I don't really think Keeby would be the one who would do that, he simply said he would do that to Kirsy because he wanted her to feel more calm about the situation). You know, sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward. That's what I'm doing with Keeby. I'm aware he was sorta "messy" in this chapter, but I did that because he has character development to get, and the best I could think for him was this. Don't worry, I know what I'm doing (or at least that's what I believe).
Also, I couldn't do better with the events from the games because, well, Keeby wasn't involved on them. Most of the time, they happen, and Keeby later finds out they happened and gets upset... And that's what I showed. I don't know how I could show Keeby being upset, uh, "better".
I'm aware maybe Keeby really looked like he was angry for no good reason and that I could've set up this better, so that his actions in this chapter made more sense, but that's the only issue I can see, honestly. Maybe one thing or another could've been done better, but I'm not professional writer nor can I read my readers mind (no pun intended) and figure out what they are thinking that I'm not thinking. I guess the issue here was that because I was showing Keeby acting more with his emotions than reason with no apparent reason, it looked like he was out of character, but I didn't realize it would be sorta hard to understand why he was acting like that.

Even if I don't fully agree with what you wrote, I'll keep these in mind when I do Keeby-related stuff in the future. In fact, I've already got some ideas on how to fix these problems (I hope). (Actually I had two or three possible turn outs for what would happen to Keeby in the near future, and I figured out one of them would destroy Keeby's characterization, so I won't do that. Uh, thanks!)

Posted at December 15th, 2015, 7:25 am

Posted by 1997Cjones

@Gigi19972010: I welcome the drawing style, and I feel it's improved from the other anniversaries. The storyline was not convoluted enough to be like a final Ace Attorney case, but not even I know how they plan it, though the victim being dead and coming back is something new and good enough (I hope we find out why eventually). The only thing that still irks me is that they did a trial this time and never again. But there must be a reason too. Overall, good chapter.
BTW, I think Kirby's last line would be "Wh-Why did he never tell me about that".

Posted at December 15th, 2015, 8:39 am

MatrixMercenary
Posted by MatrixMercenary

Keeby dissed on Bandana dee

He must die.

Posted at December 15th, 2015, 3:14 pm

Sapar
Posted by Sapar

Reading this update and your comments has in fact clarified a few things like you said it would. I do still have some comments, though, and I thank you for letting me speak my mind.

I have two main complaints with this arc, the first being Sera and how she was handled. She wasn't subtle enough, like you mentioned- unless you know really what you're doing with it, it's generally not a good idea to have a character so clearly meant to be suspicious, especially if you're going to have them actually be the murderer in the end. The readers had their eyes trained on her the whole time, and in fact a few of them noticed the issues with Sera's story before it came up in the comic (to be fair, though, this might've happened regardless- you give somebody enough time to look, they'll find Waldo). It's not an issue of writing so much as part of the nature of the genre, as judging how the audience will react can be pretty tricky business.
The big thing here, though, is how Sera's reaction to being called out was handled. Let me clear something up: the "innocent until proven guilty" mindset does not apply to the prosecution and the defense, both of which will do whatever they can to push their side of the arguement. After having pointed out the flaws in Sera's version of events (which was actually pulled off pretty well I feel, kudos), Kirby was in a prime position to call her out on any response she might give... not to mention, Adeleine being his friend would give him extra motivation to point out even the slightest trace of suspicious behavior.

Said suspicious behavior being to dance around the question before changing the subject entirely. That's something that should've been noticed by just about everyone there, most certainly Kirby, so the fact that he didn't captialize on that is very odd and confusing. This is further compounded by her knowledge that Leona wasn't actually dead, which.... well, how would she know that? Nobody seeming to notice any of this seems kind of forced and unnatural.

The other problem is Keeby.... Keeby Keeby Keeby. Looking back at the chapter and taking into account his explanation on this page, his actions DO make sense. Going into the case with a logical outlook, before seeing a chance to be a hero... only to THEN see that chance slip away by sheer dumb luck, and desperately try to cling to it. It's understandable that he might lose his head in the heat of the moment.

What ruins this picture is the big explosion on the last page- it felt like a car going from, like, 10 miles to suddenly holy crap fast. It was a big leap, and seemed kind of out of the blue as opposed to a natural result of Keeby's frustration.

In order to demonstrate what I mean, here's how I would've handled it:
-the trial ends, and Adeleine isn't a nutter. Everyone is happy to see their friend walk free... except Keeby. While he does congratulate his friend on her innocence, he doesn't seem all that enthusiastic, instead being quiet and distant towards the others. His passive nature and some understanding of his pettiness at that moment make sure he stays that way, however.
-Later, they get home, and Kirby confronts Keeby in private concerning his aloofness; Keeby then confesses to Kirby how he feels and why he acted the way he did during the trial. Instead of sympathizing with him, however, Kirby points out how childish this is and what might've happened had Leona not miraculously come back to turn the trial around (possibly getting a little heated in the process, since he doesn't have Keeby's self-control to reign him in).
-Keeby gets upset at having his feelings stomped on by his best friend, and the two of them get into an arguement. Finally, he snaps, and BAM! Explosion.

This sort of progression of events does a better job of staying true to his character, while still giving him much better reason to finally deviate from said character, AND Kirby's behavior seems about right as well. In the future, a gradual buildup like this tends to feel much more plausible and as a result goes over better.

Overall? This arc had a lot of potential, and I applaud you for attempting something so drastically different from what this comic usually goes for. Unfortunately, quite a bit of that potential was lost in translation, and as a result there was a noticeable dip in quality compared to your normal work. A big part of that has to do with the nature of these kinds of stories, though- Courtroom drama has a lot of emphasis on playing with people's expectations, which isn't something a person can just pick up on their first try. Keep experimenting, albeit with more calculated risks from now on.

One last thing... I'd try and do some research on things like this whenever it helps. Not necessarily the actual legal aspect of it- it's based off of Pheonix Wright, after all, and it's not like the characters themselves had any clue what they were doing, though even so that still might've helped a bit. It's definitely worth seeing what other stories of this kind do, though, even something as simple as watching a few episodes of Law & Order (not sure if they actually have that particular show in Brazil) would've gone a long way towards shaping the plot of Duel Destinies.

Posted at December 15th, 2015, 6:34 pm

This entire chapter for me, seemed to be a BLAM. There's never been a chapter where they just stand around and talk, and characters seemed forced. But it wasn't bad, but comparing it to other chapters isn't such a good idea.

Posted at December 15th, 2015, 7:40 pm

SilverIke
Posted by SilverIke

@Ultizeta: This doesn't have to do with 20x kirby, but when are you going to update kirby adventure again? I was really enjoying it, but their hasn't been an new page in a while. If there is a specific reason, can you tell me or something?

Posted at December 15th, 2015, 7:52 pm

Posted by Mt (Guest)

It's official keeby is gone

Posted at December 16th, 2015, 8:37 am

Posted by Mt (Guest)

Will keeby appear in the next chapter on exolians side I don't know

Posted at December 16th, 2015, 8:42 am

Posted by Planetbox (Guest)

While I certainly did enjoy this section, I did have one problem with it. I'm not sure if this has been said before (I don't really have time to read some of those really long comments) but my main problem was that the ending didn't really feel satisfying enough.

One of my favorite things about Ace Attorney is the satisfaction you get from catching the killer. After all, you spend the entire chapter collecting evidence and cross-examining people to find the killer. And when you finally pin them down and see that breakdown animation, it is extremely satisfying.

However, in this comic, it seemed more like Kirby just sort of bluffed his way through the "trial" and then presented his theory that made Adeleine look less suspicious. Then it looked like Keeby was about to turn it around but whoops Sera accidentally confesses. It wasn't very satisfying. Not to mention Sera's red-eyes made it not very surprising when she was the killer. I'm not a master at storytelling or anything, and I still enjoyed this section, but I would have enjoyed it more if Kirby had managed to prove Sera's guilt with more evidence.

Posted at December 16th, 2015, 3:08 pm

Posted by MT (Guest)

@Gigi19972010: gasp five years at 20 times kirby?Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Posted at December 16th, 2015, 7:28 pm

Posted by MT (Guest)

@MT: not aculy scared making a joke ever heard of five nights at freddys not to be rude just in CASE PEPOLE dident realise i was making a joke

Posted at December 16th, 2015, 7:30 pm

Posted by :O (Guest)

How the crap does Xialion know that Keeby will leave them? That's just bullshit.

Posted at December 18th, 2015, 3:58 pm

@:O: You seem to be forgetting that Xiaolin is a psychic.He might have limited future prediction or could've learned enough from his brief encounters with them to anticipate their reactions.

Posted at December 22nd, 2015, 10:30 pm

Sapar
Posted by Sapar

Tfw no reply ;-;

Posted at December 27th, 2015, 1:49 pm

Gigi19972010
Posted by Gigi19972010

@Sapar:

i forget stuff i'm sorry
I have other comments other than yours to reply, I'll do that soon, don't worry.

Posted at December 27th, 2015, 9:24 pm

Gigi19972010
Posted by Gigi19972010

(I'm a bit late to these comments but at least I replied yay)

@1997Cjones:

Thanks, and yeah, all these things will be explained later.
Oh whoops, I never fixed that phrase. I will soon.

@Sapar:

Yeah, it was hard to know what you all would think of Sera, and my guess was wrong.
I think the thing here with Kirby was that, after being called out by Keeby so many times and proven wrong, he kinda retreated a bit. He always thought Sera was the culprit, but in the beginning it was because she "looked evil". Even later when it was more likely that she was the culprit, he kinda had already put in his mind that maybe he was wrong after all... If that makes any sense. Maybe from an outside view this doesn't make much sense, but if you try to put yourself in Kirby's position, his actions make sense in the context, even if this wasn't the right thing for him to do there.
The thing with Sera changing the subject was that, right after she changed it, she mentioned that Leona didn't die. Wow, think of that, that was shocking. Everyone suddenly forgot about her suspicius behavior and questioned how Leona was alive. And no, this doesn't exactly make her suspicius, she, you know, just knew she didn't die.
I see this other way Keeby's reaction could've have gone, and it could have worked too. However, I still don't see the main problem with how I handled it. I know you aren't the only one who pointed this out, but I still don't get it. Keeby had been keeping his anger inside for a long time now, but never showed it, and when he decided to show it, boom, he exploded. Actually what I would change if I were to would be to make Keeby's anger more clear, at least to the readers. You know, I wanted Keeby to explode in front of everyone from the "trial".
I've watched some episodes of some shows of courtroom drama, not only I played all Ace Attorney games released (except the DLC episode of Dual Destinies), but it looks like it wasn't enough? Oh well, I tried my hardest, and I honestly think that for a first try, this went pretty well. Thanks for your comments.

@Cherry the Puffball:

If you just say this chapter is bad without even explaining exactly how, it just makes me want to never want to try anything like this again.

@Planetbox:

I had trouble creating evidence for this chapter, so I used almost none. And this wasn't supposed to be exactly how Ace Attorney cases go, in fact I wanted to change it a little, and this is where Sera suddenly confessing like she doesn't care comes in. I love the breakdowns too, but Sera's motive and personality just wouldn't fit if she were to have a breakdown or freak out for being caught.

Posted at January 8th, 2016, 8:37 am

Sapar
Posted by Sapar

@Gigi19972010: -That kind of makes sense, I guess, but there wasn't any real indication of that thought process. Maybe if there had been some sort of "Maybe... but what if my judgement is clouded?" kind of statement to better show that that's what his reasoning was.
-This is definitely a passable explanation, I can see why they'd completely gloss over her suspicion if their minds weren't occupied elsewhere. Not really what first came to mind for me, which I think is partially my own fault, but there wasn't really much there to make me think that?? Not sure exactly how you could fix that but it's something to keep in mind.
-The example was just my way of trying to explain, I'm a very visual thinker and I like to work with illustration to make my points. The thing with Keeby just... didn't feel natural, it seemed kind is sudden and didn't flow all that well. There was no real buildup to Keeby's explosion, and I say that with his aggressive behavior in mind.
See, there weren't any subtle hints to pick up on in his behavior during the arc. While he was obviously acting out of character, I had no reason to think there was anything amiss except for that... well, he was acting out of character. Nothing was put there to steer me towards "hmm... there's something else going on here," and away from "Well this guys's just being a turd." The first part of my example was a scene where something like this would've been able to be put in (Give Keeby some dialouge that shows there's something else on his mind, and whazam pow you're good to go), though now that I think about it it'd be better to just supply that kind of behavior during the course of the trial.

I look over all three of those points and I notice that they all have to do with portrayal. You have a good grasp on how to show personalities, Gigi, but as far as thought processes and motivations went this arc just isn't do it. Compare it to something like the setup to Milkshake, where you look back and see all the things you didn't pick up before but that suddenly make perfect sense... there was a sense of "ah-HAH!" there, one that stuff like Keeby's actions just didn't capture as well as it usually does.

Really, I kind of feel like that's the case with the arc as a whole- it's just below your usual standard of quality, and it left me expecting something to happen to explain it all (which I did, but well... be careful what you wish for, I guess). If there's anything to take away from it, though, it's to make sure you're getting that suble messaging across whenever there's an underlying reason behind a character's behavior.

Posted at January 8th, 2016, 4:12 pm

Gigi19972010
Posted by Gigi19972010

@Sapar:

Well, to end this all (I guess) I just want to say that I already have plans for the future to, uh, make this look better. If that makes any sense, I really wanted to get people off guard with Keeby's reaction, making it sudden but at the same time putting hints during the comic that something with Keeby wasn't going that well, but as I've already admited and realized that didn't work that well. This is sort of spoilers (but they aren't very spoiler-ish), and I guess it's the best to say this to make sure you know I'll indeed do something: one day Kirby will look back to try to understand his friend's actions and remember facts that built Keeby's anger, with the help of some friends. Kirby is also confused by Keeby's actions, as already even shown in the first page of From Time to Time.
About Keeby, this is about it. I see some flaws even though I still think his actions weren't as forced as some said here, and I'll be sure to do my best in the future to try to explain this better and not repeat it. I mean, he exploded, some people might explode, Keeby probably wasn't the most likely to explode like that, so if people need his reasons to explode better told, I'll do that.

As for the chapter as a whole, I really, really, really tried my hardest to make this good and it wasn't easy at all. I've lost the count of how many times I rewrote plannings, scripts and all that to later look at them and think that maybe it wouldn't be the best thing to happen. This was a very stressful chapter to write and I don't want to ever do anything like that again, because I just... Failed. I want to do something epic in this chapter and by doing something completely different from what I do I ruined it. Oh well. I'm sorry. And I know C+C is supposed to help, but... After so many comments people made it feels like this whole chapter was just a mess.

Posted at January 8th, 2016, 8:37 pm

20 times kirby too fun!

There's too much fun that i cant handle! Too fun! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahAhahahahahahahahahaha hahqhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHQHQHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHhahhahahahahahhHahHahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahhahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted at June 22nd, 2016, 7:46 am

Whoops!

There's some qs and Qs in hahahahahas and HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHS

Posted at June 22nd, 2016, 7:47 am

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